International:Arguments Against Piggy Back Proposal
Note : une version en français de cette page est accessible ici : International:Piggy Back Proposal Argumentation
The following text is a response to the proposal relayed by the Pirate Party of Sweden to rejoin the EUDemocrats European political party in order to collect public funding from the European Union : Piggy Back Proposal EUD Pirates.
It will not be possible to give this funding back to the national pirate parties. It could be used, however, to fund the European Union electoral campaigns, or to organise joint events to develop and promote the pirate movement in Europe. This Piggy Back Proposal would be an alternative, until the formation of a European Pirate Party, which is in process but risks to happen too late to benefit from funding next year.
This text gathers various objections raised among Pirate Party of France, which add to the problem ofworking with an openly Euro-sceptic party, while the tendency within Pirate Party is more towards an improvement of the European construction.
You can comment on this text or read a translation proposal in French of the "Piggy Back Proposal" on our forum.
- 1 Risk of ideological confusion with the extreme right
- 1.1 Slippery positions
- 1.2 Wish of rapprochement with the Pirate Party
- 1.3 Awareness that the voting results of the Parti Pirate are better than those of Debout la République
- 2 The impossibility of claiming to be part of a solely financial set-up
- 3 Group predominantly rightwing conservative
- 4 Conclusion
Risk of ideological confusion with the extreme right
The EUDemocrats are represented in 7 states, which is precisely the threshold necessary to keep the European funding. One of these countries is France, with Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, and the party Debout la République (Arise the Republic) which he is the leader.
Debout la République is a right-wing sovereignist political party. Openly Euro-sceptic, despite they introduce themselves as relevant of the Gaullism ideology (from Charles de Gaulle, as a large part of the French law), they sometimes have very disturbing populist stances or discourses.
T. N. : See the wikipedia page of Gaullism.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of facts potentially incompatible with the values of the Pirate Party :
Rapprochement with Front National
Nicolas Dupont-Aignan has, at various times, made statements and reached out to representatives of Front National, the extreme-right party of Jean-Marie and Marine Le Pen.
During the campaign for the presidential election of 2012 where he was a candidate, in March, the "Figaro Magazine" asked him who he would take as a Prime Minister if he were elected. He named various people that he qualified as "patriots" including Marine Le Pen, president of the Front National, the main extreme-right French party.
Source : Le Nouvel Observateur.
He also reached out, last September, to Front National and called for a "gathering of all the patriots".
Several militants of his party gave instructive reactions following this announcement :
Laure, a militant from North-East of France, agrees with the wish of dialog of her president : «It is a choice that can embarrass some people. However, as eurosceptics, we have to work together». Her colleague Olivier goes further. «Before, our position was fuzzy, we were neither right nor left. Now, it will position us between UMP and FN.»
T. N. : UMP is the Popular Movement Union, Sarkozy's right-wing party. FN is the National Front, Le Pen's extreme rightwing party.
Source : Le Monde.
Questionable amalgams on Roma populations
Quotes of Nicolas Dupont-Aignan :
Today, with the return of the left to power, it brutally changes from false firmness to true laxism, the eternal laxness of an irresponsible left, caviardised and moralizing. For how else can you call this false generosity, which is, by encouraging the arrival and installation of Roma populations, overwhelming our citizens with new problems instead of protecting them ? Aggressive begging, thefts of all kind (metal, pick-pocketing, burglary,...), exploitation of children, savage occupation of land and creation of unsanitary slums, constitution of mafia network, massive moonlighting...the list — non-exhaustive — of public disorder caused by part of this uncontrolled immigration is not seriously disputed by anyone..
Under these conditions, and especially with the existence of millions of gypsies in Eastern Europe who are only waiting for a signal to rush massively to the West, at the risk of unprecedented uproars, the only sensible solution remains the restauration of controls at our borders and... the sacking of Mes Reding, who will know how to recover have no doubt !
Fermness towards minors
Extraits du programme de Debout la République :
Extracts from Debout la République's program :
Restore the formally mandatory at secondary education."
Introducing a module during teacher training to prepare them for the authority, including its use for disciplining and thus showing that authority guarantees the general interest.
<blockquotes>"Create institutes for difficult students, with tougher disciplinary conditions, uniformed and military style supervision, in order to relieve schools from disruptive students and rehabilitate these youngsters. Students expelled from their school will be assigned automatically if they cannot find another general institute."
Nicolas Dupont-Aignan has long defended ideas of fermness towards minors. See for example this extract from 2006 of his personal blog :
Revise the 1945 ordinance on juvenile offenders to finally cease to excuse dangerous minors and be able to, in case of serious crimes like in Great Britain, place them in closed detention centers. There again, refusal of the executive power !
Quotes from the program of Nicolas Dupont-Aignan for the 2012 presidential election :
Contrary to what some want us to believe, the border is a positive value, a symbol of tolerance.
Extracts from the program of Debout la République :
Denounce the Schengen agreements to re-establish control of our borders
Lengthen to five years the period opening the acquisition of French nationality by mariage to fight against white weddings.
Suppress the module «Languages and culture of origin» and replace it by intensive French lessons.
T. N. : This module enables children of foreign people who have recently immigrated to receive complementary lessons of the language and culture of their original country, in partnership between France and several foreign countries, mainly in primary school.
Nicolas Dupont-Aignan has long defended populist position of harshness towards foreign people. See for example this extract from 2006 of his personal blog :
Restore the double punishment meaning that foreigners who commit serious acts in our country, may be expelled. Sadly this measure of common sens that exists in all the countries in the world was suppressed at the request of the extreme left by Nicolas Sarkozy, while earlier Lionel Jospin had refused !
T. N. : Sarkozy was a right wing president (2007-2012), Jospin was a socialist prime minster (1997-2002).
Wish of rapprochement with the Pirate Party
Various facts leave the impression that Nicolas Dupont-Aignan and Debout la République would like to use the media impact of a cooperation with the Pirate Parties and their European party of EUDemocrats within such a structure.
Therefore there is indeed a risk present that any joint action with the EUDemocrats incite Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, directly or indirectly, to use this information publicly to claim the credit to have a "cooperation with the French Pirate Party".
The invocation of the name of the Pirate Party is already frequent : for example, a representative of Éva Joly (candidates for the Greens), during a debate on digital policy of candidates to the presidential election, had used as an argument the fact that the pirates were member of the Green group in the European Parliament. Without going that far, creating a common structure with the EUDemocrats could only generate similair comments, and any step to prevent any member of this common European party from disclosing this agreement would probably increase the media coverage in the event of leak.
Here is a list of elements that go towards this direction :
Reaching publicly out to pirates from 2009
In 2009, the Pirate Party of France established itself entering a partial parlementarian election for the first time where they got 2% of the votes. A few weeks later, they participated a collective project of authors called "the battle of HADOPI". About forty authors like Dupont-Aignan contributed, the Parti Pirate (Maxime Rouquet) and more like Daniel Cohn-Bendit and Richard Stallman.
A presentation of the authors of the book was held in front of the press, at which Nicolas Dupont-Aignan discovered the Pirate Party, and invited its members to join other political parties already "resisting" to the HADOPI like his party.
See the video, and especially from 3m50s.
Alors y'a un parti des Pirates, moi j'ai plutôt envie de dire aux pirates venez dans les partis résistants, qu'ils soient de gauche ou de droite, qu'importe. Mais qu'importe (euh), la bataille vous la gagnerez, en faisant pression sur le politique par les élections.
So there's a party of Pirates, I'm more inclined to say to the pirates join the resistant parties, whether left-wing or right-wing, unimportant. But however (uh..?), you will win the battle, by putting pressure on the polititics via the elections.
Wish to be seen as a free internet defender
Nicolas Dupont-Aignan has made of the struggle against HADOPI, and its predecessor DADVSI (INFOSOC's implementation, with DRM protected by law), one of its main fights. He strived to appear as opposing ACTA, and generally, as a partisan of the "digital freedoms".
To be well understood, Nicolas Dupont-Aignan would certainly appreciate support from political groups carrying out the same fight.
By the way, it is to worth noting that advocating a free internet doesn't actually mean to be close to thePirate Party. Thus, Jean-Marie and Marine Le Pen were the closest to the Pirate Party when they voted the telecoms package directives according to la Quadrature du Net's ranking. This shows well that a group should not be judged without taking a look at all its positions, including the ones outside our core themes.
Attempt of public political rapprochement during ACTA protests
In 2012. the Pirate Party of France participated several manifestations against the ACTA treaty. The political parties were hardly welcome, but the Pirate Party was less criticized then the others. Before the departure of one of the manifestations with thousands of protesters present wearing anonymous masks, representatives of Debout la Republique came to propose to members of the Pirate Party present to « meet » Nicolas Dupont-Aignan in front of tv and photo cameras. The PP representatives (Baptiste Marcel, secretary, and Maxime Rouquet, copresident) have declined the proposal.
Awareness that the voting results of the Parti Pirate are better than those of Debout la République
At the parliamentary elections in June 2012, 101 pirate ran candidates. Only a few dozen had the means to actually pay an official campaign (like to pay for printed ballots avalaible to the voters instead of having them printing it from home), but the pirates who had the means to make a complete official campaign (with ballots, flyers and posters) have surpassed the candidates of Debout la République, the party of Nicolas Dupont-Aignan.
The impossibility of claiming to be part of a solely financial set-up
The Pirate Party of France denounces the current French public financing system of the political parties, that favours big parties at the expense of smaller or newer formations/parties. The other parties generally negociate with one of the two main political formations, sacrificing parts of their ideas to make a deal that would give them access to more elected representative and public subsides, even one or two Ministers. The Pirate Party of France has always refused alliances and has made public that we would rather stay true to our ideals, even at the price of a slower start.
The subject of money in politics is looked down upon in France, the public is very sensitive on that topic and a move to get a maximum amount of public subsidies would certainly be frowned upon by the public. The Pirate Party of France, proud of having the will to do politics differently, to be first and foremost a citizens movement, and to refuse to sacrifice its ideas in exchange for a seat in one or another parliament, would completely contradict itself and would be, as a consequence, perceived as one more political party ready to compromise its conviction for a short term benefit.
In case of a joint operation between the Pirate Party (European, French or Swedish) and the EUDemocrats would get media coverage, the Pirate Party of France would not be able to defend a uniquely financial based alliance. Far from easing the polemic, everything seems to point out to the fact that it would only increase media criticique, and will get longlasting discontempt of many citizens. It would probably be constraint to publicly condemn the project and break away from the other pirates parties that would have been involved, that would destroy the political unity that the pirate movement can be proud of.
It is not worth the effort.
Group predominantly rightwing conservative
We have done a research on members of EUD, it turns out that they are all linked by their Euroscepticism, but when the other politics are known, they are, except for one, members of the conservative right wing. Thus [b], amongst the 18 elected representative, 8 are identified as "rightwing conservative"[b] (including Nicolas Dupont-Aignan and François-Xavier Villain)[/b], a trotskyist, the 9 others are eurosceptics but we haven't been able to find out if they defined themselves as conservative or not.
In 2009, four Members of the European Parliament allied to EUDemocrats are part of the parlementary group "Indépendance et Démocratie" at the european Parliament. The group ceased to exist for the 2009-2014 legislature/mandate?, lacking enough MEPs, even if rightwing eurosceptics form a new group "Europe Libertés Démocratie". Two members sits at the European Parliament as non-aligned. (March 2009)
Eight members of national and regional Parliaments in six european countries are allied/part of the EUD network. (March 2009)
T. N. : See the Wikipedia page of EUDemocrats.
Denmark T. N. See the Wikipedia page of June Movement
- Søren Bo Søndergaard, MEP, trotskist, Socialist Labour Party (SAP)
- June Movement (JuniBevægelsen) 1 euro deputee : Hanne Dahl
- Mouvement « Non à l’UE » (Liikumine ei Euroopa liidule)
- Jaan Kundla, député
member of the People's Party Moderates and the leader of the Estonian Pensioners' Party
- Gun-Mari Lindholm, députée au Parlement d'Åland
Obunden Samling (« Coalition des indépendants ») est un parti politique conservateur ålandais
- Danne Sundman, député au Parlement d'Åland
leader du parti Obunden Samling (parti conservateur) en 1996 .
France T. N. See the Wikipedia page of Arise the Republic (and above).
- Debout la République; 2 députés : Nicolas Dupont-Aignan et François-Xavier Villain
Parti politique de droite, souverainiste. (voir ci-dessus pour les problèmes posés par ce parti
- National Platform
The National Platform for EU Research and Information Centre shortened to National Platform is an Irish Eurosceptic lobby group which campaigns against greater European Union integration, and against a Federal superstate. It is a member of the EUDemocrats - Alliance for a Europe of Democracies.
- People’s Movement
- Kathy Sinnott, MEP
Elle a fait campagne sur les questions de handicap et de l'éducation, euroscepticisme et le conservatisme social .
- Parti eurosceptique '(Euro Scettici – Partito Animalista Italiano)
T. N. See their website
- Parti de l'action (Ricibas Partija), fusion de "sois un homme" (?) et "mouvement pour l'indépendance"
- Normunds GrostinsMalta
- EUD Malta (Id-Demokratiċi Ewropej)
- Parti de la Nouvelle Démocratie (Partido Da Nova Democracia) 1 député au Parlement de Madère: Baltazar Aguiar
Parti de la Nouvelle Démocratie est un parti politique libéral et conservateur du Portugal
- Parti de l'Initiative nationale (Partidul Initiativa Nationala)
- Démocratie directe slovaque (Priama Demokracia - Hnutie Domova)
- Vladimir Kostilnik, député au Parlement régional de Prešov
- Peter Kopecky
- Liste de Juin (Slovénie (Junijska lista)
- EUD Slovénie (EUD Slovenia)
- Gorazd Drevensek, membre slovène du parti populaire européen souverainiste EUDemocrats.
- Liste de Juin (Junilistan) présidé par Sören Wibe; 2 eurodéputés: Nils Lundgren et Hélène Goudin
- Daniel Hannan, eurodéputé
député européen depuis 1999 pour le Parti conservateur.
- David Heathcoat-Amory, député
- Roger Helmer, eurodéputé
is a British business executive and politician and a United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP) Member of the European Parliament for the East Midlands region. He was elected to the European Parliament in 1999 as a Conservative Party MEP, and re-elected in 2004 and 2009. In March 2012 he defected from the Conservatives to UKIP
We vividly recommend the Swedish Pirate Party to cease negotiations to join this group, and to other European Pirate Party to make enquiries of the EUDemocrats in their country in order to know if they are to coming across the same problems as the PP-FR.
Generally, we advise, in order to work with other political parties, to not limit ourselves to a common, minimalistic denominator, but to also verify that these political parties are not likely to defend points ofview that are against those of the Pirates Parties, which could annoy those Parties.
We encourage Pirates Parties of Europe to contribute to the discussions group PP-EU Statutes, in order to constitute a European Pirate Party that would allow our movement to not have to ask ourselves this questioning and risking to be compromised.